Louder Than Weapons – The Project with Audie Cornish

I did not assume we might be doing one other episode a few mass capturing so quickly. However right here we’re.

As a group.

That is from a vigil in Nashville.

Thanks to our artists for sharing the reward of music. You’re the custodians of that particular reward.

I have been to this place, and I do not imply some form of memorial after a mass capturing, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a number of years masking the South, and it isn’t an enormous metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Girl Jill Biden visited the town to attend a vigil for the capturing victims of the Covenant College, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist could be there.

Will the circle be unbroken?

By and by, Lord, by and by.

That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award successful band Previous Crow Medication Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their group and a mum or dad of two faculty aged youngsters. Actually, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is referred to as the Episcopal College of Nashville.

So I am carrying two completely different hats right here when a faculty capturing occurs in our city. It is each as a mum or dad and it is as someone who’s on the opposite facet of the choose up line as properly. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, likelihood is at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the massive weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a faculty in Nashville, Tennessee. In relation to your own home, it is completely different.

And the sky lowered within the sky.

Ketch Secor lately wrote an op ed for The New York Instances that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I wished to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to stay on the middle of all of it as a mum or dad, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the project. I am Audie Cornish.

The capturing on the Covenant College form of prompted you to put in writing an op ed for The New York Instances. However can you’re taking me again to that day a little bit bit? The place have been you once you heard it occurring?

Certain it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I received a textual content message from our faculty legal professional saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was occurring. And prayer hand emoji is attention-grabbing.

So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a capturing, particularly at a faculty, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Concern. What? What do you’re feeling?

It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. You already know, the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our faculty are very current, and it is as a group member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our kids, to our the place that’s most sacred.

And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public faculty. It did not occur at an enormous college. It occurred at basically a small Christian major faculty. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.

Yeah. And our faculties are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nevertheless, it you recognize, we’re all the identical. We’re all each faculty, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that children are our future and should be stewarded and cherished on and guided. And, you recognize, that is an actual elemental precept for me.

Can I ask, how outdated are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?

Yeah, they do. They usually’re 9 and 11.

So did the college you based this Episcopal faculty, did it go into lockdown? Form of what what did you you all must do because of this?

No, the colleges adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I feel that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your kids haven’t but been notified. The workers is aware of, the lecturers know, all people is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, all people is aware of however the youngsters. And we will speak about it tomorrow. However we wished to provide the probability to speak about it first. So in case you can think about a choose up line, anyone who’s who’s been by means of a faculty capturing of their group is aware of, you recognize, the choose up line that first day is stuffed with tears.

Proper. And for individuals who aren’t aware of how huge ups and drop offs work nowadays in faculties, there’s a line proper, the place like there are form of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you choose them up. There’s not identical to wandering out of the constructing the place I feel in case you have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand move off.

That is proper, Audie. You could have youngsters.

Effectively, the juxtaposition of youngsters filled with vibrant pleasure and life and fogeys filled with grief and unhappiness coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.

That means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each mum or dad’s face is simply drawn.

And each mum or dad is each trainer and simply, you recognize, holding again tears as is each trainer. However each baby continues to really feel very protected. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no baby is protected any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our children.

I assume I wish to begin perhaps with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if folks go to look you up, that may be the primary tune they study. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me a little bit bit about the place you have been in your profession once you wrote this.

Certain. Effectively, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable tune.

Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my approach to North Carolina, staring up.

And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it once I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep faculty referred to as Exeter, and I used to be had simply realized to play the banjo up there.

So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any method you’re feeling. Hey mama rock me

You speak about the concept that your greatest recognized tune, Wagon Wheel, is commonly blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.

If you make the form of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a specific fashion of songwriting, you are partaking in a group that may be completely different than your individual kind of background, and it isn’t. Effectively, there is a practice going by proper now. That is kind of proof..

I keep in mind the practice. Yeah.

The trains are all the time going by in Nashville.

Simply received to maintain it occurring the podcast. It will add a little bit little bit of colour and speaks to what I am speaking about. You already know, the trains are going by. The vans have NRA stickers. You already know, once I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in all places. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite elements of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.

And once you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the particular person falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Effectively, that is The South.

Like, that is presupposed to cowl numerous issues.

Yeah. And whether or not it is presupposed to be that method or, you recognize, I feel we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, and so they’re vital to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought of just like the insurgent flag up to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When in reality, we’ve got all the time had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.

And effected change in a method, or no less than increase the form of societal stakes partaking in sure language.

Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in the direction of The South’s evolution.

To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so intently align with their audiences. It’s extremely very like hip-hop, like folks in hip-hop discuss in regards to the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the identification of the folks listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical method. However because of this, it has numerous like guidelines. You already know, there is a couple strains you they folks do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to speak about how that performs out in fashionable nation?

Certain. Effectively, right this moment’s nation singer may not come from The South and is faculty educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. You already know, it is it isn’t coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified lots. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.

Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are determination makers and our usually managers, there’s been kind of like numerous analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers in all probability seems to be a little bit completely different than folks anticipate as properly.

Effectively, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you recognize, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, modern nation music on the radio is an actual protected area for us to not speak about political divisiveness and never speak about issues of of substance. However as an alternative we’re all kind of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is

Which is why it is common, proper? I imply, through the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming perhaps was up 15%. It was greater than another style.

Folks welcome that protected area.

Journey story. It is you recognize, it’s extremely a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the form of stuff that goes primary is the tune about grandpa and what a superb man he was and the way if we could possibly be a little bit bit extra like him, then the world could be a greater place. So this kind of, you recognize, hallmark form of these beliefs which are tossed round may not be that lifelike for right this moment’s actuality of, you recognize, I labored I am a part of a world financial system working two jobs. And, you recognize, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an vital antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.

Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a method that that is constructed into the music, too.

Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I might wish to spit some seashore nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. This can be a approach to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–

However do you hear it within the fashionable music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do folks nonetheless speak about that?

No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not speak about weapons. If we do, it is a tune about I took my boy trying to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it isn’t saying is I’ve received an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a protected area the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As a substitute, they’re allowed to say, I taught my baby learn how to, you recognize, I imply, once I was a child within the eighties, like I went chook hunt with Dad, I realized learn how to hearth a weapon. I realized learn how to clear a weapon. This stuff are vital to the ways in which gun tradition could be a optimistic, however the protected area is that we’re not speaking about what it means in right this moment’s America. As a substitute, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.

So what’s it like for artists corresponding to your self to lift this problem?

Folks hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. You already know who’s courageous is the child that pulled the fireplace alarm, you recognize, within the hallway beneath gunfire in our city in a faculty, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I’ll sing in regards to the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I’ll inform what I see.

I do not wish to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?

Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city and so they bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless recent, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the truth. It is like, Good God, the place will we stay? What will we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my method of claiming it isn’t over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American kids gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it will be over.

Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.

You’re demanding a brand new form of motion come out of the south. And that it partly be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as properly, not simply politicians, folks corresponding to your self. Why do you assume it might make a distinction?

Effectively, I feel that Nashville stands uniquely poised to steer a response to the college capturing epidemic.

However why do you assume that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to assume that?

Effectively, Nashville, even if the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to cleared the path. I am saying Nashville.

Yeah, however is not that the robust half? If in all these states and it isn’t simply Tennessee, you have received these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of crimson, and by crimson I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This appears like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.

And I do know it is value it. I do not wish to as a result of everyone knows it is value it. However I need I wish to perceive why you assume nation musicians are in any method uniquely positioned to have this dialog.

Effectively, and I wish to I recognize you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I wish to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties mentioned its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different elements of the South have been too unsafe. However folks gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of faculties, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.

Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.

All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That reveals our skill as a as a group to exist exterior of the state. Now, identical to in that point, the state legislator mentioned, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We forged the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different situations of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the demise knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to alter. You already know, 50 years from now I feel we will be wanting again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the USA.

Once more, I wish to convey it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know in regards to the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio particularly, which nonetheless has a really form of robust grip in a method programmers do, and even latest historical past. Proper. When you consider the Dixie Chicks, and so on., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.

You already know, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you recognize, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the yr.

Do you want these folks for the motion you are speaking about?

They’ve a very far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our children. And I am asking them by means of this piece and in addition nose to nose in my group, by means of conversations of textual content. You already know, I’ve reached out to so many singers up to now two weeks.

And how much textual content you ship.

Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music group within the wake of the capturing and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out right this moment in The Instances. Should you get a sec, please have a look.

What’s been essentially the most optimistic response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?

Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I feel silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new tune on the topic. For the reason that capturing, which is barely two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective answer.

I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed mentioned one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the form of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you mentioned, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It isn’t like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I assume what would it not take, do you assume, for folks in your business? To begin to do one thing comparable, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.

It’s starting and it is, I feel, in its infancy, however it’s already began.

And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing an enormous bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant College. And once you have a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it isn’t the standard Americana of us who all the time say, you recognize, we stand with youngsters, we get up towards gun violence. As a substitute, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.

However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a protected area from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for an enormous artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no one’s going to stand up and say we should always have gun management.

There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we’ve got began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence towards kids in our faculties or about the necessity to rethink the varieties of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when someone takes one step and the motion can rapidly comply with it, then the following step is not as arduous to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. You already know, I’ve gotten numerous suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you recognize, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vans blaring in my tunes. So, you recognize, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer time. So, I imply, I am I am used to taking part in to an viewers that’s our nation people. However I like my nation people viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 huge silos within the nation. Like, I would go to work in a single silo and are available house and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I like these folks.

What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?

Nation music has an awesome future in these instances to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that reality. You already know, it’s extremely a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the good spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your kids. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!

Are you able to discuss in regards to the tune that you’ve got written out of this second?

New materials? You already know, usually, identical to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with numerous completely different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you recognize, writing the proper caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Instances or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and try to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our children aren’t protected of their faculties. What which means for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to put in writing new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I received a brand new tune that is popping out referred to as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.

Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.

Effectively, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you recognize, persons are cagey about their new stuff!

You are coping with a dude that wept by means of the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.

All proper. awoke this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half method. This time it was folks I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it will cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a regulation on a dusty scroll.

Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Previous Crow Medication Present.

Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our govt producer. Particular due to Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.

I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not wish to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not wish to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.

Sending that one out to Louisville right this moment.

Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Yeah, we received. We received to. We received to do it, y’all.