Have you ever really tried it? Within the lead-up to Ratboys’ new album, singer/guitarist Julia Steiner has outlined in a single interview after one other the therapeutic train that offers Singin’ to an Empty Chair its identify: you sit throughout an empty chair that symbolizes an absent individual and attempt to categorical no matter disagreeable feelings you will have bottled up. Listening to the follow-up to 2023’s The Window again and again, an empty chair was at all times in my periphery, and I might generally discover myself observing it whereas letting the songs do the speaking: projecting, positive, however largely getting misplaced of their sprawling journey, closing my eyes to understand their textures – homed in with producer Chris Walla – and spinning my head in pure pleasure. I used to be grateful for his or her lonely revelations however keen to place it on within the automobile, on an extended drive surrounded by family members – actual, not imagined. When you’ve got listened to a Ratboys document earlier than, you already know the brand new one is as tremendously open-hearted and emotionally piercing as it’s ultra-catchy. The subject material could appear heavier this time, however it feels much less like pulling a blanket over the unvarnished fact than warming the room that would make it unravel, maintaining the door open for anybody who’d wish to enter.
We caught up with Ratboys’ Julia Steiner to speak concerning the Driftless Space, Juana Molina, a roll of gaffe tappe, and different inspirations behind their new album Singin’ to an Empty Chair, which is out in the present day.
The Driftless Space in Wisconsin
You went there to put in writing and demo the brand new songs earlier than turning months later to start monitoring. How did it really feel totally different getting into every time?
One thrilling factor for us going into making this document was understanding that we had been inviting Chris Walla, who produced the document with us – one in all our lifetime heroes, and at this level, we’re fortunate to name him an in depth buddy – into our neck of the woods, our house turf of the Midwest within the US. He grew up on the West Coast in Seattle within the Pacific Northwest, which is simply such a unique a part of the states geographically and culturally, and now he lives in Norway, on the entire different aspect of the world. This time round, it was his thought to need to strategy the album firmly primarily based right here, the place we dwell, and the encircling areas, so it was thrilling to get to indicate him round slightly bit. We went again to this home the place we had recorded earlier than, so we had an thought of how we wished to arrange our gear – even the little issues, just like the DVD library that this home had. As a result of this cabin isn’t a recording studio, it’s actually only a trip rental house that we discovered on a kind of apps. So, understanding which DVDs they’d, how the kitchen was arrange – it was a really intimate, acquainted feeling, going again there, already having had that have of residing in that home for every week after we wrote the songs.
The Driftless Space itself – I really feel like I might discuss this for some time, as a result of I discover the geological historical past of the Midwest actually fascinating. However mainly, within the Ice Age, 10,000 years in the past, there have been these enormous glaciers that lined a lot of the space that we name house, and for no matter cause, these glaciers didn’t fairly attain the southern southwest portion of Wisconsin and the neighboring states round there. What that produced was: Chicago, the place we dwell, is admittedly flat. There’s actually no hills, no topography to talk of, which is nice for different causes – getting round is kind of simple. Nevertheless it’s a reasonably mundane panorama, I suppose, and on this particular a part of Wisconsin, the glaciers didn’t flatten every thing out, so there’s a ton of rolling hills and windy backroads and forests, simply a lot of nature that we don’t actually have entry to in Chicago. It was actually fairly unique and exquisite, solely driving hours away by drive and nonetheless felt fairly distant and totally different from our on a regular basis. That first writing journey, we went on a reasonably lengthy drive simply to clear our heads on the finish of the week and hearken to music collectively, and it was an exquisite expertise. That’s one in all my favourite methods to hearken to music, on an extended nation backroads drive.
pictures of this land did make me surprise if it impressed any a part of ‘At Peace within the Hundred Acre Wooden’.
That track is most firmly rooted within the cabin, for positive. I wrote the chords and lyrics right here at house, however introduced it to the fellows up there, and the primary time that we labored on it collectively was in that area up on the cabin. After we recorded it with Chris, we recorded 95% of it within the cabin. That’s the one one which has vocals that I tracked in that room. It felt very at house there, as a result of this home we had been in in Wisconsin was fairly remoted. It was by itself large plot of land, and also you couldn’t see any neighbors in any respect. It was 75 acres of unoccupied, largely forested land, so it positively sort of felt like we had been in our personal little world out in nature. And that is likely one of the fantasies of these Winnie the Pooh tales that I really like: being out in nature with your folks and never having to fret concerning the complexities of metropolis residing.
I do know loads of the songs took form within the different studios that you simply labored at – and possibly it’s additionally the identify that prompting me to ask – however I ponder if there was one thing valuable concerning the aimlessness that marked this a part of the method, the place there wasn’t essentially the strain of finishing the songs.
Yeah, that’s a great way to think about it. We wished the stakes to really feel low initially. That was one other concept that Chris Walla dropped at the desk: This cabin sounds nice, and we’ll deliver sufficient gear of our personal that we will seize an ideal recording and use no matter we get. If we find yourself getting takes that really feel wonderful, they’ll dwell on the album. You don’t need to redo them later. And on the similar time, if we don’t get takes that really feel nice, then that’s okay. We’ve spent every week engaged on the songs and re-acclimating to one another, bonding and cooking, and listening to music. It was a really open, free, playful atmosphere. It’s all within the spirit of fine enjoyable and mutual help, and I believe as a result of that was the vitality within the cabin that week, we did find yourself getting some takes that we had been actually enthusiastic about. ‘Penny within the Lake’ and ‘Unusual Love’ and ‘At Peace’, and loads of ‘Simply Need You to Know the Reality’ got here out of that point within the cabin, amongst another little sprinkles of issues that we ended up taking from that and overdubbing with every thing else.
The authors Susanna Clarke and Miriam Toews
They’re the 2 primary authors that I used to be studying persistently whereas we had been engaged on this album. Beginning with Susanna Clarke in 2024, the timeline simply matched up completely, and her novels had been very a lot part of my day-to-day after we had been engaged on writing the songs. We first went as much as the cabin to do that demo writing journey in March of 2024, and through that week was after I learn Piranesi for the primary time. That novel, for anybody who hasn’t learn it – the setting is simply as a lot of a primary character because the the 2 figures.
Proper, the Home.
Yeah, the limitless sequence of rooms and what makes them distinctive. They really feel very alive on this mystical, magical manner. For no matter cause, I’m so grateful that I introduced that e book with me on that journey, and it felt very applicable to be studying on this area that we had been discovering for the primary time, which felt equally charged with this vitality that was mysterious to us and we had been discovering in actual time. Simply such a page-turner, and acquired me actually enthusiastic about artwork and being artistic. It felt like an actual companion throughout that week that we had been writing.
From there, I used to be actually interested in Susanna Clarke as an writer. I regarded up her different work and noticed Jonathan Unusual & Mr Norrell was her debut novel, one which she had written over the course of many years, or a minimum of 10 years. I used to be so fascinated by her story of working as an expert in a unique trade. I don’t even know what her job was, however she was a author on the aspect, and would primarily simply sort of chip away at Jonathan Unusual & Mr Norrell in her spare time over the course of a few years. She finally completed it and put it out, and it simply turned this enormous success. I used to be actually in awe of that story, of how she got here to writing, the gradual strategy and the truth that she wasn’t fearful about dashing something. I recognize gradual artwork. That novel’s actually lengthy, and I really like long-form something: songs, lengthy films, lengthy books. If I can purchase in, I need to be in it for the lengthy haul.
The one I’ve learn is Piranesi, which I keep in mind being fairly brief, and I absorbed it in a couple of days.
Completely, similar. I didn’t need it to finish. I managed to stretch it out, so I learn it over all the week that we had been working, however I wished it to maintain going. Alternatively, Jonathan Unusual & Mr. Norell, which I extremely advocate, is that this magical realism – like if Jane Austen wrote a fantasy novel. It’s actually lengthy, so I learn that over the course of our total tour that spring and summer season, and it was my fixed companion on the street. I simply felt very related to her writing all through that yr as we had been writing and workshopping the songs.
Miriam Toews is one other one in all my favourite writers. I’ve been conscious of her work for slightly bit longer. My sister, in 2020, despatched me a care package deal of books proper when the lockdown began, and a few these had been Miriam Toews novels, together with her e book A Difficult Kindness, which is the primary one I learn. I used to be simply instantly drawn in by her down-to-earth manner of writing. It’s very humorous and distinctive and has such a singular perspective. The group that she grew up in and that she’s writing about could be very totally different from any that I’ve ever been part of, and but I felt very invited in. The way in which that she sort of writes about her personal private experiences within the context of fiction is one thing that I discover actually inspiring, and I aspire to do this. I really like the entire novels I’ve learn by her, and I learn All My Puny Sorrows whereas we had been recording the album. That novel’s extraordinarily uncooked and emotional and weak, and gave me confidence to lean into these elements after we had been making our document.
I really like these titles – A Difficult Kindness reminded of the phrase that the narrator in Piranesi makes use of to explain the Home, which is “infinite Kindness.”
Yeah, the Home provides a lot.
I used to be trying again at quotes in an try and relive the e book, and there’s one about “the knowledge of birds resid[ing] not within the particular person, however within the flock, the congregation.” That jogged my memory of of the verse about birds [“on a wire/ They fell asleep because they all forgot to sing”] on the ultimate monitor.
I really feel comforted by that, for positive. I believe that’s one cause I really feel so protected in placing out this music that’s private to me is – the ability and kindness of the flock. It’s my bandmates. I’m not not out right here alone, and I’m actually grateful for that.
Trevor Horn
Chris Walla – I don’t know if it’s correct to name him a disciple of Trevor Horn, however he’s very keyed into Trevor Horn’s discography and his complete story. First as a member of Sure after which as a producer who’s achieved such a variety of initiatives, from Grace Jones to – I imply, the factor that blew my thoughts was studying that he produced a few these songs for t.A.T.u., that Russian duo who I grew up with and blew my thoughts after I was a toddler. After which, Expensive Disaster Waitress by Belle and Sebastian, he labored with them within the early aughts. He makes such daring, inventive selections and is such a grasp of understanding when to make large swings in manufacturing. Dave, Chris, and I might commute to and from the studio day-after-day collectively, as a result of Chris was crashing at our home, and we’d hearken to this oldies station. Pretty usually a Trevor Horn manufacturing would come on, and it was at all times actually thrilling when that occurred, as a result of Chris would level it out and sort of dissect loads of particulars and inform us about particular synths that had been simply being launched on the time, the ways in which they had been utilized on these recordings. It simply opened up a complete new world of music that I had by no means actually discovered about.
Do you have a tendency to do this while you’re listening to music as a band extra typically?
That’s one thing that the 4 of us do rather a lot, it doesn’t matter what, which I believe is likely one of the the reason why we get together with Chris so effectively. On the finish of the day, all of us love listening to music and and nerding out about our favourite artists and recordings. After we’re on tour, simply the 4 of us, we’re extra of a document band than a podcast band within the van. We don’t actually hearken to podcasts tremendous usually, it’s extra so urgent play on full albums, often. It’s fairly a pleasant strategy to go that point within the van, and there’s at all times one thing to speak about. There’s at all times rather a lot taking place, so you’ll be able to observe various things collectively and make connections. After we first met Chris, that was one thing that he was clearly very down with. I really feel like most producers can be. [laughs] We haven’t labored with many, so it’s laborious to say, however he positively is.
Juana Molina
That one most likely didn’t come up on the oldies radio station.
[laughs] No, positively not. I want there was a radio station right here that performed Juana Molina. Perhaps there’s, and I simply don’t learn about it. Juana is a kind of artists who I’ve had on my radar – I’ve been listening to her music since 2012. It’s been some time, and I’m actually grateful for that. A buddy turned me on to her after I was nonetheless in college. Once I first discovered about Juana Molina, I listened to her extensively and sort of consistently, after which for a couple of years – I don’t need to say I forgot, however I used to be listening to different issues and didn’t examine in for some time. For no matter cause, a couple of months earlier than we began recording the album, I rediscovered Juana Molina, and particularly one in all her early data, which is named Son. I believe it’s her third album, got here out in 2006, however I turned so obsessive about the acoustic guitar sounds on that album particularly. That was an enormous reference for me so far as acoustic guitar tones to chase.
After we had been up within the cabin, when it was time to take a break and cook dinner meals and make dinner, that may be a good time to hearken to music collectively. I’ve a reminiscence of placing on Juana Molina, particularly that album, after which blazing via a few of her different data, selecting songs to select. However Chris I don’t imagine was acquainted with her earlier than, so it was actually thrilling to share her music with a buddy for the primary time. She is such a magical artist – I don’t actually know easy methods to describe what she does, however the way in which she builds her songs layer by layer is admittedly pleasing and satisfying. I don’t know what she’s speaking about – I don’t converse Spanish – however I don’t have to know. I simply love all of the totally different sounds that she makes.
When an acoustic guitar catches your ear, is it often the tone you attain for, or the tuning, the chords? What are you most interested in?
Positively interested in every thing, so far as acoustic guitar goes. It’s my favourite instrument. I’m at all times excited when that’s form of the featured instrument on a track. An acoustic guitar solo is at all times actually thrilling, particularly within the context of indie rock. I really feel prefer it doesn’t occur fairly often. I’m positively not a guitar virtuoso, so I’m not at all times listening to the track with the investigative ear of: How did she play that? What shapes was she utilizing? How might I replicate that? It’s extra so the sensation that it creates, and loads of that, I believe, comes from the tone. Clearly there’s not one which I want. I really like tremendous shiny, trebly, Tom Petty acoustic guitars, the place it’s clear somebody’s strumming with a choose. Or a extremely heat shut, fingerpicked sound, possibly even a nylon string, is admittedly stunning.
The readability {that a} close-mic’d acoustic guitar can present in a combination is so essential, I believe. That document particularly, Swan, there’s one thing about it the place the acoustic guitar simply feels so near the ear. I simply wanna wrap myself up in it like a blanket, it’s so comforting. I couldn’t imagine that I had by no means heard that document earlier than, simply by no means pressed play on it, so it was a really thrilling discovery and got here at a good time, as a result of we positively leaned into the acoustic guitars for ‘Unusual Love’ and ‘At Peace’ after we had been recording these up on the cabin.
The Canadian sketch present Youngsters within the Corridor
That is one in all my favourite varieties of inspirations, when you already know it’s simply one thing you bought collectively to observe. The Simpsons is one thing that’s come up a few instances in that vein. For you, it was Youngsters within the Corridor.
For me, much less so – for the boys, sure. I used to be there, however I am going to mattress sooner than everybody else – not tremendous early, however I’m not a lot of a brilliant evening owl. We hadd a very nice routine. The primary time that we had been up on the cabin, each evening, after we had been form of able to wind down and put the devices away, we might spend, for me, possibly an hour simply sitting on the sofa and stress-free and watching Youngsters within the Corridor, which is a Canadian sketch sequence – the episodes that we had been watching, I believe, had been from the mid-90s. I didn’t learn about this present earlier than we began watching it each evening on the cabin, and it was so humorous and irreverent. It’s 5 guys, and anytime there’s a girl character on the present, the fellows are dressing in drag. It’s one of many silliest, senseless, enjoyable issues to complete the day and wind down.
So, I might usually say goodnight and go to mattress earlier than Marcus and Sean and Dave. I would go away them, and they might nonetheless be watching Youngsters within the Corridor, and I might form of go to sleep to the sound of them laughing to that present via the partitions. It was our ritual every evening after we had been engaged on the document. I don’t know if any of it actually seeped into the music and lyrics essentially, however it contributed to the optimistic vibes in an actual manner.
Richard and Linda Thompson’s 1974 album I Wish to See the Brilliant Lights Tonight
I first heard this album after I was taking part in poker with some buddies 10 years in the past, proper after I moved to Chicago. It instantly caught out to me as being, once more, actually down-to-earth, and it felt prefer it was made by human beings in a room. Plenty of heat textures and fascinating devices that you simply don’t at all times hear in music from the 70s – extra folky stuff just like the mandolin, I believe right here’s some accordion in there. Some fairly unbelievable band performances, very within the pocket, particularly one which’s tremendous gradual, ‘Calvary Cross’. That had been a document that I’ve cherished for a very long time.
After we went on that nation drive on the final day of that writing journey, after we had been up in Wisconsin for the primary time, it was a really stunning rural, scenic setting, driving across the Driftless area – with no objective in thoughts. We had been actually simply aimlessly driving with out a map or a vacation spot. In that second, I put that document on within the van, and it was simply a kind of magical needle-drop moments the place the music and the setting simply morphed, and it was excellent. That document actually resonated with us at on that day, in that place, all collectively within the van, driving round. It turned sort of a touchstone of how music could make you are feeling actually impressed. We put that document on once more after we had been driving again to the cabin, when Chris was with us, to begin recording.
How was it totally different the second time?
That point it was slightly bit colder, and I keep in mind the solar was setting. I suppose the context for us was fairly totally different so far as the timing of the place we had been within the course of. The primary time we listened to it, it was our final day up in Wisconsin, and we had been celebrating a job effectively achieved, a productive week of labor. It was our strategy to blow off some steam on the finish of the week. The second time we put it on was the very first day that we had been with Chris, and we hadn’t recorded something but for the album. I used to be driving, and I put it on simply form of as a strategy to take us again to that feeling of motivation and remembering what we’re able to, to get us enthusiastic about being again on this place once more, this a part of the nation, this particular small city. It felt like a pleasant strategy to keep in mind how a lot we love what we’re doing. I don’t suppose anybody was at risk of forgetting that, however yeah.
You continue to want these reminders of what a document can do on the proper time.
Yeah, man. There’s one thing so laborious to elucidate and so magical a few needle drop on a street journey that simply hits on the excellent time. I’ve such a selected reminiscence of listening to that Huge Thief double album [Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You]. Wwe had been driving via the Grand Tetons in Wyoming, and it was snowy and so sunny, similar to one other planet. After which we had this one time we had been driving on a extremely lengthy day via rural Utah, and it was the 4th of July, and hastily we got here across the bend and noticed all these fireworks going off far within the distance – clearly there have been a bunch of little cities within the valley, all lighting off fireworks on the similar time, and we had been listening to the second Now, Now document, Saved. It was simply so epic. It was one of the vital stunning little snapshot recollections. I extremely advocate it: Jst go on a street journey and hearken to your favourite data, and it’s sure to occur earlier than lengthy – these two issues will intersect in a manner that simply sticks with you perpetually.
Fortunate roll of gray gaffe tape
One of many causes that we had been so excited to work with Chris Walla once more is as a result of we already had this sense of familiarity. We had made a document earlier than, engaged on The Window, and one factor that I actually loved about working with Chris the primary time round was how he was very dedicated to creating consolation within the vocal sales space. Whether or not that was lighting candles, or, after we had been recording The Window, he would deliver all of those little tchotchkes over time and place them close to me on slightly desk. At one level, he acquired out these faux plastic timber that Tegan and Sarah had used; they had been set items for his or her album recording documentary for The Con. He simply had these within the studio in Seattle, so he introduced them out, and he is aware of I’m an enormous Tegan and Sarah fan. Simply doing no matter he might to make me really feel assured and comfy and comfortable whereas I used to be recording vocals.
One factor that I noticed after we had been engaged on The Window, recording the vocals, is that I wish to have one thing in my arms after I’m recording a vocal take, ideally one thing heavy. I don’t know what it’s about having the counterweight; I don’t know if it brings my shoulders down, or if it’s one thing that helps me launch my diagram. I don’t know if it’s bodily, or if it’s psychological, or only a consolation factor once more. Nevertheless it turned one thing I used to be open about with him, and he clocked that and was very non-judgmental and able to assist me, get what I wanted. I appreciated that. Going into recording collectively this time round, I felt like I used to be , as a result of I already knew that about myself, and Chris knew that too.
The primary vocals that we did for this document had been the final track, ‘At Peace’, and what did we now have on the cabin for me to carry in my arms however an enormous roll of silver gaff tape that Chris had introduced with him, I imagine, from Norway. It turned my fortunate allure recording the vocals, a minimum of my vocal takes for the document – I don’t suppose Sean used it when he was doing the harmonies. However having this was a constant little key to unlock my finest performances, and Chris at all times had it shut at hand and was prepared to present it to me when it was time to sing.
I’m smiling as a result of I’m taking a look at my notes right here, and the following query was going to be: What components of your singing voice do you are feeling such as you unlocked with this document?
I do know I stated acoustic guitar is my favourite instrument, however actually, on the finish of the day, singing is the factor that I really feel probably the most assured in as my primary instrument. Simply in understanding my voice, having gotten to comprehend it through the years, and being empowered to push it in new instructions. I really feel like I strategy making every document as a possibility to strive new issues and pay even nearer consideration to what I’m doing. For this one, it was thrilling, as a result of I had the possibility to, with a track like ‘Gentle Evening Mountains All That’, get actually into the track and provides possibly a extra dramatic, amped-up efficiency than I’ve achieved previously, even sort of yelling at one level. [laughs] Additionally, studying extra about what my voice does after I really feel like I’m not accountable for what’s taking place. There’s some moments on ‘Open Up’ and ‘The World, So Madly’ the place I’m singing actually excessive in my head voice, and there’s slightly lilt or a break that’s taking place in my voice. I couldn’t essentially try this should you requested me to, however it stored taking place, so little completely satisfied accidents like which might be at all times actually thrilling to find. Truthfully, they make me need to get a vocal coach and attempt to harness that, in order that I might do it on function.
Generally I really feel slightly bit nervous going into recording vocals, as a result of I’m a critic of myself, and I would like it to be actually good. On the similar time, it’s thrilling, as a result of I like to sing, and having discovered extra about my voice through the years, I do really feel like I’ve a greater thought of what I would like going into it. I’m simply so grateful, as a result of Chris is such an superior vocal producer. He’s an ideal singer, however he was by no means the lead singer in his band, and he nonetheless has such an ideal ear for what makes a compelling vocal take – for comping, breath, and in addition for when diminishing returns are setting in and it’s time to cease. That’s most likely personally my favourite a part of working with him, doing the vocals collectively.
This interview has been edited and condensed for readability and size.
Ratboys’ Singin’ to an Empty Chair is out now through New West Data.
